spiderwort
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Post by spiderwort on Mar 2, 2017 18:37:18 GMT
In other words, films that weren't designed just to uplift the spirits of the country involved. I know that's generally a tall order, so some latitude is allowed, including listing more contemporary films.
I'll start with these:
All Quiet on the Western Front (1930)
Rome, Open City (1945)
Apocalypse Now (1979)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2017 18:40:55 GMT
Okay, this is only addressing a few aspects, because yes, liberties were taken elsewhere, and lots was left out. But I enjoyed Patton. Having read several books about him (as the books that were released by his family have been sanitized and rewritten for the gentle reader), I can appreciate some of the peculiarities of Patton, that actually were adequately portrayed in the movie.
Fascinating man, Patton.
The movie left out an awful lot of very important things, and I understand it needed to create a cinematic flair and appeal to the audience. But as mentioned, they did accurately portray a few very real aspects of the man and his war.
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maxwellperfect
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Post by maxwellperfect on Mar 2, 2017 18:44:08 GMT
'Two Women' (1960)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2017 22:25:33 GMT
Das Boot (1981)
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Post by manfromplanetx on Mar 2, 2017 22:30:38 GMT
The Steel Helmet (1951) Written Produced and Directed by Decorated WW11 war Veteran Samuel Fuller, it was the first film about the Korean War and the first of several excellent hard hitting realistic war films made by Fuller.
The on the edge of your seat drama is typically a multi layered tale from Fuller, he confronts American racism by portraying a North Korean Communist prisoner baiting a black soldier in conversation with accounts of American society's Jim Crow rules (laws enforcing racial segregation). Sgt. Zack's shoots of a prisoner of war which also infuriated the military as they had had provided assistance in the form of military stock footage.
Army personnel summoned Fuller for a conference on the film Fuller's reply that in his World War II service shooting prisoners of war frequently happened, he had his former commanding officer, Brigadier General George A. Taylor, telephone to confirm it.
Variety magazine said of the film, "The Steel Helmet pinpoints the Korean fighting in a grim, hard hitting tale that is excellently told."... "serves to introduce Gene Evans as the sergeant, a vet of World War II, a tough man who is interested in staying alive, and hardened to the impact of warfare. Robert Hutton, conscientious objector in the last war but now willing to fight against communism; Steve Brodie, the lieutenant who used pull to stay out of combat previously; James Edwards, the Negro medic, and Richard Loo, a heroic Nisei, are the other principals who add to the rugged realism."
Le 17e parallèle: La guerre du people, 17th Parallel: Vietnam in War (1968). Directed by International filmmaker Joris Ivens with the aide of his North Vietnamese colleagues.
Filmed under extremely dangerous conditions, at the age of 69 Ivens shows the life and death of North Vietnamese peasants under the menace of heavy American bombardments, it is a sad and tragic reality that has not been glossed over.
Only 72 votes at IMDb for this film!. There are scenes of American planes shot out of the sky, and the capture of and remains of US pilots are shown, bodies of Vietnamese children innocent victims are a cruel reminder of the destruction and devastation caused by the imperialist forces, a damming reality.
The overall message is an indictment of all forms of war. |
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Post by london777 on Mar 2, 2017 22:51:19 GMT
I desperately need to be doing something else at the moment, but because I respect your posts (until we fall out), Spiderwort, I will quickly throw in some I like from my own collection.
Because war is so horrible and 99% of the time pointless and avoidable, a "realistic" war film to me has to be an anti-war film. Most that get made are, or try to be, or pretend to be (I am looking at you Private Ryan).
Paths of Glory (1957) Stanley Kubrick 8.5
Perhaps the most famous, and maybe the best ever, English language anti-war film.
A Very Long Engagement (2004) Jean-Pierre Jeunet 8.5
It is a war film (WWI), but mainly a love story, also a detective story, social satire and who knows what else. Mixing genres is always risky but somehow it all works. One of my top movies of the new millenium.
Safe Conduct (2002) Bertrand Tavernier 8.5
A WWII occupation story but really an homage to the wonderful French film industry of the epoch that went shamefully out of fashion when those cocky Nouvelle Vague brats arrived.
The Cranes are Flying (1957) Mikhail Kalatozov 8.5
Very few films can boast the distinction of having single-handedly kick-started a major national film industry. The first major non-Stalinist movie in the Soviet Union.
Battle of Britain (1969) 8.0
Some bits are crudely propagandist, and there is a totally unnecessary and banal love story, but because the main thrust of the movie is belated homage to "Stuffy" Dowding, the UK's shamefully neglected national hero, it comes across as sincere.
Unmatched air-battle sequences, partly using documentary footage but also re-enacted with the largest collection of (near-)contemporary aircraft ever assembled. They would have constituted the world's eighth largest airforce.
Watch it with Sir William Walton's score, not Ron Goodwin's.
Das Boot (1981) Wolfgang Petersen 8.0
The TV mini-series version (available on DVD) is the most complete.
Downfall (2004) 7.5
Tora! Tora! Tora! (1970) 7.5
Pearl Harbor from both the Japanese and US viewpoints. There is a wonderful and moving scene of the Japanese carrier planes taking off in a beautiful sunrise. I would love to know if that was contemporary news footage or shot for this film. Anyone know?
Army of Shadows (1969) Jean-Pierre Melville 7.0
Low-key French Resistance drama.
In the Valley of Elah (2008) Paul Haggis 7.0
Very brief action sequences but a convincing study of what war can do to servicemen.
No Man's Land (2001) 7.0
The satire misfires at times, but overall a good insight into a theater of war not much shown in English-language movies. With a bitter ending.
Ran (1985) Akira Kurosawa 7.0
Although a Shakespeare adaptation, it looked the most realistic of all the Chinese and Japanese spectaculars about pre-modern warfare. But what the hell do I know about it?
Ride with the Devil (1999) Ang Lee 7.0
Above average American Civil War drama.
Europa Europa (1990) Agnieszka Holland 6.0
Ironic rather than satirical. A Jew is trained for the Nazi elite.
Fortunes of War (1987) 6.0 (UK TV mini-series)
Civilians on the fringe of the fighting in the Balkans and Egypt. Like the novels it adapts, it runs out of steam once we leave the Balkans, but lots of good scenes.
Glory (1989) 6.0
Many Americans, and especially Afro-Americans, might take the title literally. It should have been called "Criminal Stupidity", but a well-made film.
The Thin Red Line (1998) Terrence Malick 6.0
I am not a Malick fan, but the fighting sequences are excellent. Makes "Saving Private Ryan" look like flag-waving, sentimental tosh but suffers its own problems too.
When Trumpets Fade (1998) 6.0
Unpretentious anti-war movie about the Hurtgen Forest campaign which is over-shadowed by the Battle of the Bulge. Made for TV but rarely looks it.
Not sure what you mean by "realistic", Spiderwort. The war movie boards on IMDb (now dissolved like tears in the rain) were infested with guys posting stuff like "Terrible film. The armored vehicle shown at 48:21 was clearly a L7/119b, which did not arrive on this front until three months later. Should have shown a L7/119a. Totally destroyed my belief in the story" or "The third French officer from the left clearly wore a ribbon which was only awarded for service in North Africa. Why cannot movie-companies do some elementary research. I demanded my money back from the assistant manager".
I do not have time for research now, and my memory is shit these days, but I will add a few great and realistic war movies not in my collection (though I wish they were):
The Way to the Stars (1945) Anthony Asquith (moronically re-titled for the US market).
Twelve O'Clock High (1949)
Ivan's Childhood (1962)
Come and See (1985)
The Unknown Soldier (1955) Wonderful movie about the Continuation War in Finland in 1941.
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Post by london777 on Mar 2, 2017 23:26:48 GMT
Not sure I would describe Apocalypse Now (1979) as "realistic". Great film that it is, most of it is like a drug-induced surreal fantasy. |
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Post by london777 on Mar 2, 2017 23:41:30 GMT
For some reason I cannot edit my longer post. When I click Edit it opens my later short post instead.
Just wanted to mention:
Decision Before Dawn (1951) Anatole Litvak
I do not rate it highly as a movie. I found the psychology unconvincing, some parts melodramatic, and the main point somewhat buried in the abrupt ending.
But if you want realism, it is present in spades. Filmed on location in still bombed-out German cities, it features the most realistic-looking German soldiers I have seen. Not surprising as they used German prisoners of war. Also shows the German people in a more sympathetic light than was normal in the immediate post-war years.
The Cruel Sea (1953). Plenty of stiff upper lips, but then we English really were like that. Maybe that is why the girls round here call me "Stiffy"?
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Post by ZolotoyRetriever on Mar 3, 2017 2:42:28 GMT
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Post by ZolotoyRetriever on Mar 3, 2017 3:06:43 GMT
A few that immediately come to mind:
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Post by Richard Kimble on Mar 3, 2017 5:12:49 GMT
"The only way to make a realistic war film would be to hide snipers behind the screen and have them shoot at the audience." -- Samuel Fuller
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glenesq
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Post by glenesq on Mar 3, 2017 6:28:28 GMT
A great deal of time and money was spent to make Master and Commander (2003) as realistic as possible. The film makers sweated the details on uniforms, weapons, the sailing of the ship, the food the crew ate, on and on. In the book, the ship visits the Galapagos Islands so that a naturalist aboard can explore them. Rather than fake a stop in the Galapagos, Master and Commander received permission to be the first feature film to be shot on the islands. All and all it's the most realistic age of sail war movie ever made.
A change was made to screenplay though from the underlying source material (book series by Patrick O'Brian), not exactly to uplift spirits of the country involved, but... the enemy was changed from an American privateer in the books to a French privateer in the movie to keep from driving away American audiences.
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Post by joekiddlouischama on Mar 3, 2017 7:21:25 GMT
In other words, films that weren't designed just to uplift the spirits of the country involved. I know that's generally a tall order, so some latitude is allowed, including listing more contemporary films. I'll start with these: All Quiet on the Western Front (1930) Rome, Open City (1945) Apocalypse Now (1979)I understand what you are referring to, but just to make another point, Apocalypse Now strikes me as "mythic" rather than "realistic." Certainly, though, the incident with the Vietnamese civilians on the river is highly realistic. I feel that the current Hacksaw Ridge (2016) portrays battle and the nature of death in war in an extremely realistic manner (at least until the final day of the battle, when the tone or pitch changes slightly). I also feel that that the sense of verisimilitude created by American Sniper (2014) is unmatched by anything that I have seen—you can leave the film feeling as if you are suffering from PTSD yourself for the next few hours. And I viewed the film four times in the theater, and it kept creating that effect in me. Another contemporary war film, Lone Survivor (2013), portrays the carnage and tension of battle (a different kind of battle from, say, that of Hacksaw Ridge) in realistically brutal terms, but as I recall, the ending carries a bit too much ideological uplift. Flags of Our Fathers and Letters from Iwo Jima (both from 2006) are very realistic about the tragic, multifaceted nature of war. Also check out Hell Is for Heroes (1962), which features one of Steve McQueen's best and most underrated performances in a very tense, grim film about war. |
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Post by joekiddlouischama on Mar 3, 2017 7:25:06 GMT
Okay, this is only addressing a few aspects, because yes, liberties were taken elsewhere, and lots was left out. But I enjoyed Patton. Having read several books about him (as the books that were released by his family have been sanitized and rewritten for the gentle reader), I can appreciate some of the peculiarities of Patton, that actually were adequately portrayed in the movie. Fascinating man, Patton. The movie left out an awful lot of very important things, and I understand it needed to create a cinematic flair and appeal to the audience. But as mentioned, they did accurately portray a few very real aspects of the man and his war.
Patton is a very good film with a truly great performance by George C. Scott, but it does not strike me as especially realistic regarding war itself. Scott's brilliant portrayal of Patton may well have been realistic, and I guess that that is what you are mainly referring to. |
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rick220
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Post by rick220 on Mar 3, 2017 11:53:16 GMT
Not sure if Battleship Potemkin has been mentioned yet.
And without a doubt the most gruesome, horrific, depressing war movie I have ever seen is 'The Ascent' (1977), by Soviet female director Larisa Shepitko.
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Post by coldenhaulfield on Mar 3, 2017 16:24:22 GMT
Starship Troopers
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Post by OrsonSwelles on Mar 3, 2017 17:34:53 GMT
Full Metal Jacket, Platoon, Schindler's List, Saving Private Ryan, American Sniper, The Hurt Locker, The Killing Fields, Sophie's Choice. |
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gogoschka1
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Post by gogoschka1 on Mar 3, 2017 17:35:51 GMT
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Post by OrsonSwelles on Mar 3, 2017 17:40:51 GMT
Apocalypse Now almost seems like a battle between the conscious/awake realism and subconscious/dream-nightmare surrealism.
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Post by outrider127 on Mar 3, 2017 19:35:20 GMT
Attack and Retreat(1966)Italian film about the Invasion of Russia by Germany and Italy--Italian guilt is obvious in this film--One of the greatest anti-war movies ever made
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